This is a really interesting and thought-provoking article. I think, for me, it's about the line between gratuitous sex and healthy, sex-positive conversation. As you pointed out, we don't want to return to the dark days of sex being shameful and taboo (I grew up in the Catholic church, so I know that story all too well), but there's a certain line between honest sharing and uncomfortable, no-holds barred raunchiness. I read an article recently that spoke about how this current generation of girls has been duped into believing that free and open sex with anyone and everyone is empowering and freeing when in fact it's often scary, debasing, and leading them further from what they truly desire for their intimate relationships. Porn and soft-core porn novels a la Fifty Shades, have certainly aided in this belief. But I also believe sex is a huge part of human life and if it's handled correctly, can be a very important part of a novel that explores intimate human relationships. Do I need to see a graphic sex scene to accomplish that end? No. But I think we should be exploring the nuances of sex in literature--married sex, in particular. Given that many of us don't go around sharing the details of our sex lives with others, I think it's helpful for us to see that we are not alone in our experiences, that pleasure and desire can still be experienced in later life, and that monogamous sex can be just as exciting (if not more so) as banging random strangers you met on Tinder. Thanks for getting me thinking about this interesting topic, Amity!
More about married sex…yes! I’d love to see that represented in literature. It feels like it’s all either single / raunchy sex or barely disguised porn, with monogamous or ‘vanilla’ sex thrown under the bus. The male gaze and male preferences still dominate (pardon the pun) the public consciousness, literature, media, art, film…I want REAL sex, female pleasure, sex that isn’t judged on how good it is by how subversive it is. I felt July could have made a much stronger statement by exploring the issue of the waning and awakening of desire, and the role of motherhood and aging in that.
"Sex that isn't judged on how good it is by how subversive it is." YES, that. My husband and I have been together since I was 15 so I've never had casual sex in my life and I'm so freaking grateful that's the case. I was lucky enough to find my person very early in life and it's such a beautiful thing to know that my only sexual experiences have been respectful, monogamous, and generous on both sides. (I had plenty of adolescent experiences that were not, including a sexual assault, and I still count myself luckier than most women, sadly.) I want to see more of that represented, not whatever this smut is.
I’ve been learning more about asexuality recently through encountering more people who are openly ACE. If we want them to feel more included and accepted in society, we have to consider their needs in what we put out into the world as well. Not all ACE people are fully sex-averse or phobic, but enough are to warrant changes in our behaviour. Adding content warnings is a good start, but not enough.
What you describe in your post echoes the sentiment of what many ACE people are thinking and feeling. For them it goes even further as it feels like a rejection of their identity and an unsafe environment in which to be “out”. I don’t want to be part of conversations which make people who are ACE feel like this, just like I don’t want to be part of transphobic conversations. And we simply don’t know who is or is not comfortable with sexual conversations regardless of their sexual identity unless they tell us.
The conclusion I’ve come to is that elicit sex conversations need to include getting consent from the participants. It’s not prudish to only want to have them with certain people or never have them at all. It’s a preference. Once that should be respected.
Being on an overnight work trip a couple years ago where everyone was discussing in pretty graphic detail their sex lives and preferences was one of the most uncomfortable things I’ve ever experienced and made me go into a kind of emotional shutdown. I ended up leaving the next morning because it just gave me the ick about the whole situation and I felt unsafe in that environment. The assumption that we want to share that kind of info even with colleagues is so rude and downright gross. You don’t even have to be asexual to not want to be exposed to that.
As for asexual people, I agree it’s got to be tough for them and consent should be sought before blasting out sexual info to unsuspecting parties. I’m not a fan of content warnings though, I think people can be grown up enough to skip content they come across that they don’t want to consume.
I agree with all you are saying here Amity, and don’t mind being labelled a prude. If I was, I’d be proud of it! From what you describe, it’s not a book I’ll be ordering.
Have you heard of Louise Perry's book The case against the sexual revolution? You might find it interesting from what you've said. She makes similar points, ultimately saying that string free sex mainly benefits men. I suppose the extreme end of the view is that it's just another form of oppression.
I agree that the world has elevated sex to a be all and end all and that it too frequently conflates sex with intimacy (and i think has warped somewhat our understandingof what intimacy is).... but then also wants us to separate our sense of self from sex (string free, meaningless sex) when it suits, a kind of disembodied event... which ends in us objectifying ourselves and others.
But agreed. Talk to me about your feelings, the universe, your hopes, dreams, your theology and favourite literature... but spare me the details of your sex life please and thank you.
I think I’ve heard of that book but haven’t read it, I’ll have a look for it. I’m just sick of everything being about graphic sex, and there’s something wrong with us if we’d rather not hear the details. I do not care what other people do and support whatever consenting adults want to get up to, but it does make me a little sad and worried that so many younger women especially think that being choked, humiliated, etc.. is a normal part of sex.
This is a really interesting and thought-provoking article. I think, for me, it's about the line between gratuitous sex and healthy, sex-positive conversation. As you pointed out, we don't want to return to the dark days of sex being shameful and taboo (I grew up in the Catholic church, so I know that story all too well), but there's a certain line between honest sharing and uncomfortable, no-holds barred raunchiness. I read an article recently that spoke about how this current generation of girls has been duped into believing that free and open sex with anyone and everyone is empowering and freeing when in fact it's often scary, debasing, and leading them further from what they truly desire for their intimate relationships. Porn and soft-core porn novels a la Fifty Shades, have certainly aided in this belief. But I also believe sex is a huge part of human life and if it's handled correctly, can be a very important part of a novel that explores intimate human relationships. Do I need to see a graphic sex scene to accomplish that end? No. But I think we should be exploring the nuances of sex in literature--married sex, in particular. Given that many of us don't go around sharing the details of our sex lives with others, I think it's helpful for us to see that we are not alone in our experiences, that pleasure and desire can still be experienced in later life, and that monogamous sex can be just as exciting (if not more so) as banging random strangers you met on Tinder. Thanks for getting me thinking about this interesting topic, Amity!
More about married sex…yes! I’d love to see that represented in literature. It feels like it’s all either single / raunchy sex or barely disguised porn, with monogamous or ‘vanilla’ sex thrown under the bus. The male gaze and male preferences still dominate (pardon the pun) the public consciousness, literature, media, art, film…I want REAL sex, female pleasure, sex that isn’t judged on how good it is by how subversive it is. I felt July could have made a much stronger statement by exploring the issue of the waning and awakening of desire, and the role of motherhood and aging in that.
"Sex that isn't judged on how good it is by how subversive it is." YES, that. My husband and I have been together since I was 15 so I've never had casual sex in my life and I'm so freaking grateful that's the case. I was lucky enough to find my person very early in life and it's such a beautiful thing to know that my only sexual experiences have been respectful, monogamous, and generous on both sides. (I had plenty of adolescent experiences that were not, including a sexual assault, and I still count myself luckier than most women, sadly.) I want to see more of that represented, not whatever this smut is.
I’ve been learning more about asexuality recently through encountering more people who are openly ACE. If we want them to feel more included and accepted in society, we have to consider their needs in what we put out into the world as well. Not all ACE people are fully sex-averse or phobic, but enough are to warrant changes in our behaviour. Adding content warnings is a good start, but not enough.
What you describe in your post echoes the sentiment of what many ACE people are thinking and feeling. For them it goes even further as it feels like a rejection of their identity and an unsafe environment in which to be “out”. I don’t want to be part of conversations which make people who are ACE feel like this, just like I don’t want to be part of transphobic conversations. And we simply don’t know who is or is not comfortable with sexual conversations regardless of their sexual identity unless they tell us.
The conclusion I’ve come to is that elicit sex conversations need to include getting consent from the participants. It’s not prudish to only want to have them with certain people or never have them at all. It’s a preference. Once that should be respected.
Being on an overnight work trip a couple years ago where everyone was discussing in pretty graphic detail their sex lives and preferences was one of the most uncomfortable things I’ve ever experienced and made me go into a kind of emotional shutdown. I ended up leaving the next morning because it just gave me the ick about the whole situation and I felt unsafe in that environment. The assumption that we want to share that kind of info even with colleagues is so rude and downright gross. You don’t even have to be asexual to not want to be exposed to that.
As for asexual people, I agree it’s got to be tough for them and consent should be sought before blasting out sexual info to unsuspecting parties. I’m not a fan of content warnings though, I think people can be grown up enough to skip content they come across that they don’t want to consume.
Unfortunately social media doesn’t give the option of skipping these days. :/
In what way? Do you mean graphic sexual content?
I agree with all you are saying here Amity, and don’t mind being labelled a prude. If I was, I’d be proud of it! From what you describe, it’s not a book I’ll be ordering.
I had such high hopes for the book and was disappointed that it wasn’t the revolutionary literature I’d thought it would be.
Have you heard of Louise Perry's book The case against the sexual revolution? You might find it interesting from what you've said. She makes similar points, ultimately saying that string free sex mainly benefits men. I suppose the extreme end of the view is that it's just another form of oppression.
I agree that the world has elevated sex to a be all and end all and that it too frequently conflates sex with intimacy (and i think has warped somewhat our understandingof what intimacy is).... but then also wants us to separate our sense of self from sex (string free, meaningless sex) when it suits, a kind of disembodied event... which ends in us objectifying ourselves and others.
But agreed. Talk to me about your feelings, the universe, your hopes, dreams, your theology and favourite literature... but spare me the details of your sex life please and thank you.
I think I’ve heard of that book but haven’t read it, I’ll have a look for it. I’m just sick of everything being about graphic sex, and there’s something wrong with us if we’d rather not hear the details. I do not care what other people do and support whatever consenting adults want to get up to, but it does make me a little sad and worried that so many younger women especially think that being choked, humiliated, etc.. is a normal part of sex.